How to Successfully Navigate the Media Buying Jungle

by Adam Feldman - Kendago

(Right click and choose ‘save as’ or ‘save link as’ to download the audio file: How to Successfully Navigate the Media Buying Jungle)

Adam Feldman is the VP of business development at Kendago. Kendago is a premium digital advertising agency that works closely with the big Tier1 networks (Facebook, Google, Taboola, Outbrain, Youtube) to scale direct response brands beyond 8 figures.

This is an edited version of the audio interview linked above.

Adam Feldman

Adam Feldman

Dee Braun: Okay, good morning, Adam. Well, I guess it’s good evening for you. How are you doing?

Adam Feldman: Good. Very good.

Dee Braun: Well, you sound so excited to be talking to me!

Adam Feldman: Yeah. Long day over here today, but, uh, feeling good and, uh, happy to talk with them.

Dee Braun: Awesome. All right. So we’re going to be talking about media buying and I really wanted you to be the one I talked to because you are one of the top media buyers in our space. Maybe THE top. I don’t want to stroke your ego too much. And I know that your firm, Kendago, handles a lot of different clients, so you’re really knowledgeable on this. So let’s start out with what are media buys.

Adam Feldman: Yeah, it’s a good question. So the simplified way of answering that question would be like in layman’s terms would come down to – media buying is really – what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to buy people’s attention and time. And you’re trying to do that in a profitable manner usually, or over an extended period of time to at least be making a profit. So people are in their everyday lives. They’re on Facebook, they’re on Google searching for stuff. They’re reading an article and they have a banner ad. And what you’re trying to do and accomplish is to grab their attention, which is valuable to them, their time. And you’re trying to convince them, or to have them commit to something that you have that can help them. So it’s really a matter of time and attention. Those are the two main things I would say media buying consists of.

Dee Braun: So, okay. We did an article a week or so ago about what direct response is, and just the basics. Are media buys considered direct response where you want to get them to complete an action at first touch, or are there different kinds of responses you look for, for media buys?

Adam Feldman: Yeah, there’s a lot of signals in ways to measure media buying. Of course, you have brand awareness campaigns that you can do when you’re building up your brand and trying to get people to relate to it. But most of what we do specifically, um, in the world that we’re in the direct response, I would say is really revolving around getting people to take an action on day one, preferably it doesn’t have to be, but there’s some sort of action that occurs. It could be someone submits their email for more information could be that you’re closing a sale, they’re buying something physical or digital from you in that instance.

But yeah, we’re looking for people to take an action and you want to be able to measure it, uh, for direct response, everything, you know, comes down to how you measure and track stuff. So you want to be able to bring people in and take an action when they see your advertisement, which is of course complex. Because as I said before, people are doing many different things as you’re trying to advertise to them, and you’re trying to fit yourself in to the picture and you have to build that trust, and have them, you know, want to commit their time and attention to what you have to offer.

Dee Braun: Okay. So if, if I hired you or went with your company and we were setting up a media buy campaign first there are a lot of different platforms that we could advertise on, right? There’s the social media platforms, which I’m assuming could include Facebook, Instagram, maybe Pinterest or Twitter, or I don’t know what ones are available for that and there’s search engines, but does a media buy campaign also include like the retargeting that we all hear about? You know, how Google kind of follows you all over the place and you’re looking up basketballs and all of a sudden that’s the only ad you see when you log into Facebook.

Adam Feldman: Yeah. So at the end of the day, each channel is unique, first of all. So in each way of advertising, if you’re retargeting, or if you’re targeting cold audiences, everything is unique and different in the way that you’re going to go at it and about it. So if we’re looking at social channels, they’re usually driven by video at the end of the day, especially for scale. Um, and those channels can be everything from the ones you mentioned as well as YouTube.

So specifically if you look at YouTube, which is very socially driven with videos, that’s a very important channel for both audiences and videos. Whereas if you’re doing maybe retargeting on Google to some of your Facebook and let’s say YouTube or social traffic, what you would be doing is having messages set up differently because you already know these people they’ve already interacted with your brand or with your messaging in your advertisement. So you’re going to be speaking to them in a more personal way likely and more direct because they, you already understand what they pretty much want, and you just need them to basically overcome their objections at that point. And a good way of doing that is just providing that personal touch.

So each way of advertising is very different from the creative to the marketing message and the type of advertisement in placements and so forth that you will use in your toolbox to successfully buy media.

Dee Braun: Okay. So obviously I’m an affiliate manager and have been for a very long time. So that is where my experience is, that’s where I know the numbers and all of that stuff. How do media buys – things like conversion rates and break even points? Is that traffic generally more profitable and productive than say partner traffic, or is, or can you even compare the two?

Adam Feldman: I think they’re very different. I think if you’re looking for scale long term, you’re gonna want to have media buying online, coming from different channels. Like the ones we discussed – everything from YouTube to native advertisement, to Facebook, to Instagram, to Google search as well as display. So you’re gonna want to have a presence there as well as also having your normal affiliates mail for you consistently. They’re two very separate worlds, I would say. And they’re both important in their own rights. So media buying is definitely where the scale is, um, and where you can really go from being, let’s say a seven figure a year business to being a nine or 10 figure easily, if done right.

Whereas if you just stick with email and affiliates, you kind of first off, you can become saturated. So many people are mailing the same offers – like the top three or four offers are being mailed consistently. So a lot of fatigue there, as well as different events that happen around the world can really impact email. One of them would be the, you know, the Corona virus as well had an impact. So it’s really important first of all, to diversify. So you want to definitely be in both places. So you do want to diversify and have both options available, but the real scale and potential for a brand, especially in direct response, would come from online paid media. So digital paid media would be where that comes from.

Dee Braun: Okay. So please explain this term to me because I am honestly not clear native, native advertising. What exactly does that mean?

Adam Feldman: Yeah, so native advertising is when you – an example would be that you’re on aol.com or msn.com or any big website. You’re trying to look at news could be CNN or so forth. And you’re reading the news. You’re reading an article, something interesting, you get to the bottom, or maybe halfway through the article and you have a suggested article to read below that. So these suggested articles are basically a way for you to learn about another business or service or offer a product. And it’s just another way of advertising. So it’s similar to banner ads. Let’s say if you’re on Google and you’re getting banner ads, but these are more set up to be like articles. So they’re content based and they’re basically leading into different funnels or offers, like I said, for services. So it’s just a different way of advertising. And the two main networks would be,Taboola and Outbrain, which actually merged recently, which is a really big opportunity for media buyers that they merged.

Dee Braun: Very cool. See, I had no idea what that meant. Should small offer owners, small business owners dip their toes into media buying, or should they wait until they’re bigger?

Adam Feldman: I always suggest to have your feet in when it comes to media buying. And it’s not just because, you know, we do it. I, I think you do have to start at some point. I don’t think you need to be fully mature as a brand to buy media, especially online nowadays. But I do think that you should have offers that are somewhat optimized and what I mean by somewhat optimized. I mean that you should have already been or started testing your offers on email traffic. So the other side of, you know, the benefit of having email traffic and affiliate traffic working with different affiliates for email is that you can test your funnels and your offerings via email with your partners, your affiliate partners, and you can start to learn and see quickly what is working and what is not. And you will continuously test that until you get to a stage where you feel comfortable with the amount of revenue and success those funnels are achieving. And at that stage is a good time.

Really, I would say the sweet spot in terms of bringing it over to paid media. So you already know kind of what your offer can do from testing it on email. Yeah, it’s different channels. It’s different kinds of advertising, but it’s a good start and it’s a baseline. And that’s what you really want to start with when getting into online media, if you just start out of the blue and you know, your offer is brand new and you’re just getting into the game, you can run through a lot of money and it’s not necessarily, or it usually almost is never a media buying problem.

It’s just that the product is not highly appealing enough or the funnel itself just doesn’t convert. That happens numerous times, especially with new brands that establish an online identity. So you really want to make sure you have a baseline. And I think once you have that baseline from an affiliate traffic partnerships, you go ahead and start in some way on paid media, for sure.

Dee Braun: Okay. So how risky is media buying? Do you need to have, you know, what’s the word, a certain amount of money put back? Or is it a risky thing to do monetarily?

Adam Feldman: Yeah, the number one thing I would say is you have to understand your numbers. If you don’t know your numbers and your data and what your offers are converting at, how much money you’re making for each customer over time, how much is each cart value worth? Like how much are people spending when they buy your product with upsells and cross sells and all these different opportunities when they buy You got to know your numbers, because if you don’t know your numbers, that’s where you can really lose yourself, and lose a lot of money in the process.

So when you know your numbers, you know what you’re aiming for and you can set your targets and basically you can test it the right way. If you don’t know your numbers, you can test for a week or two and you can lose thousands of dollars, you know, 15-20K pretty easily, because you go back and you see that your numbers don’t back out. So that’s really important. I would say the biggest brands are, you know, taking this into consideration where they’re able to lose money, let’s say on day one, but they know on day seven after month, number three, that they’re going to be making money. So they’re able to take more calculated risks where the payout is much bigger because they have the data that they can rely on.

So it’s really a data game. And if you know your numbers, you really have much better chances of not losing money, but if you don’t know your numbers the risk associated with media buying is very high. And like I said, it can be 20-30K – there’s no real number to it. It just depends on the duration of your testing and how much money you’re spending.

Dee Braun: Actually knowing your numbers was my next question. And you already answered it. Thank you. So the people who know their numbers very, very well, do they have an advantage, not aiming for break even on day one in the media buying game, and if they do, what is that advantage?

Adam Feldman: You were saying, can you just repeat that?

Dee Braun: Probably not. But, so if… I’ve heard a lot of smaller offer owners say that they want to break even day one. So they’re not taking much risk with it, both in partner, traffic and media, buying. The companies that know their numbers backwards and forwards and know that they’re going to break even by day 30, so they take bigger risks on day one, what advantage do they have over someone who is not willing to take that risk because they don’t know their numbers. Do they end up with more return on their investment?

Adam Feldman: Yeah, it’s a great question. So first of all, every business is unique of course, and some, you know, there’s so many numbers associated, so you have your cost of goods. Is it digital? Is it physical? How many partners do you have in the business? Do you have spokespeople? Do you have employee expenses? Maybe it was a tough month, tough year. There’s so many factors that go into how much money you’re willing to commit to media buys and how much you need to get in return to be profitable or to be comfortable,, in order to be profitable down the road. So it really depends on the business.

Each client is unique. There are some that go in the hole on day one and, you know, lose a lot, a lot of money, even over a 14 day period to a month period. But after three or four months, they might be making money. Whereas some people that are even bigger businesses are looking for return on day one. So it just depends. Look, everything comes down to the funnel, how it converts, how your offer converts on paid media and looking from the specific channels.

So if you have a high converting offer, you’re able to, you know, you’re able to get away with a higher return on ad spend, let’s say, so you don’t need to necessarily take a huge risk in some cases. But it is a big advantage if you’re able to go in the hole on day one and even over a period of time, let’s say a month, a week. The longer you can go in the hole, the bigger benefit that can await if you know your numbers that will follow afterwards.

Dee Braun: Okay. So what about compliance? I would think that there are different compliance rules for different platforms and hurdles that an offer owner has to jump over. Is that accurate?

Adam Feldman: Yeah. So compliance is very, very big in this day and age, I would say it’s really evolved over the last like six or seven years across Google, as well as Facebook and all the other traffic sources. So on email with affiliate partners, the beauty of that is that you can be a lot more aggressive than you could be on other traffic sources, like the tier one sources, Facebook, Google, native, YouTube, Instagram, and so forth. So you’re going to want to have to, you’re going to want to have good relationships with the networks. And what that’s going to do is that’s going to provide you with safety when you need them most.

So it’s basically what we do at Zendago is we have basically a partnership agreement in a way with the networks. We work very closely with them. We support each other. We try to do everything right. We don’t try to, you know, cross them over or do anything shady. And compliance doesn’t always stop right there. Compliance, you know, on the network level you have. But, uh, as you maybe know, you have FDA compliance, FTC compliance. So compliance itself is an integral part of longterm success. Without compliance you’re just another offer that might last a few months with success and then disappear just because you’re not able to run it on the traffic sources that are best longterm. And that is a really big part of successful longterm paid media would be compliance

Dee Braun: For compliance do you recommend that the companies you work with, work with a compliance attorney, or is that something that a good media buying business would help with?

Adam Feldman: Look, we understand compliance as a company pretty well, our firm. So it’s, it’s something in our DNA. It’s something we’ve learned as being a vendor ourselves, a premium vendor in selling many products online with many customers over the years. So we understand that not just as an advertiser, but also as a vendor. So we know that, but at the same time, a vendor should properly be prepared for such cases to have a compliance officer or someone in house that can manage and mitigate the risks that come along with FTC compliance and FDA compliance.

And it really depends what you’re offering. If you’re offering something that has, you know, not much risk, you don’t really need that necessarily. And it depends on the size of your company. I would say, when you first start out, it’s not super important maybe to have some of this stuff, but as you become a big brand, it’s very common. But yeah, we do help with that as a service.

Dee Braun: So if I’m looking for a vendor to help with media buys, what do I look for? Like, what are the top three or four things that I need to make sure that they are good at and they can handle? And what would the red flags be that I shouldn’t go with them?

Adam Feldman: Yeah. I can just say it again. I’m sorry, what to cut. Some of this, my daughter keeps coming in.

Dee Braun: That’s okay. So if I’m looking to hire a vendor to help with media buys, what would I look for top three or four things that they should be able to provide me service wise and what would the red flags be?

Adam Feldman: Yeah. So you’re talking about to find a media buyer, let’s say you’re a vendor, or someone’s a vendor you’re talking about what qualifications they should be looking for requirements from a media buyer.

Dee Braun: No, the other way around.

Adam Feldman: The other way around. Okay. So if we’re saying the other way around, I would say like what I would be looking for, I guess that’s what you want to know. So what I would be looking for and what I usually look for – first off, I’m looking for open communication. I think communication is very, very important. I’ve learned over the years is the better you communicate with each other, the media buyer with the vendor, the better the success can be. I’ve seen it countless times, even if it gets to a point where it’s just, you know, you’re like, come on, we’re working so close together.

It’s so much work. It’s worth it. At the end of the day, it helps with the creative. It helps with the ads themselves. It helps with the targeting. It helps with the tracking, you know, that everything is in line with not just expectations, but with what is needed to succeed. So that’s important. Another thing I would say would have to be the offer itself is this the right offer. There’s many offers that are just not appealing enough for cold audiences specifically like on Facebook and Google. Um, so you’re going to want to have an offer that’s highly appealing to a big group of people so you can reach scale. So that’s important.

And I would say another important thing would be availability and recent success. So we kinda touched on the availability with communication, but I would say the third thing would be recent success. So to mitigate the risk it’s much better for me let’s say, to partner with someone on a similar level as us, it’s not always the case. I do take a risk, but in terms of something that I know already works and they’re looking for a boost or an improvement, that’s very easy for me to make an educated decision after reviewing their activity. So, okay, we can improve this over a certain period of time. Let’s go ahead and take this to the next level. So those are probably be the three things that I look for the most, with many others as well.

Dee Braun: Okay. So now let’s flip that and I’m looking for a Kendago or some other service to help me with media buying. What are the things I need to be looking for and what are the red flags where I should run for the hills?

Adam Feldman: Yeah. So I think if it were saying three things again, I would say when you’re looking for a media buyer, you’re going to want to make sure that they’re doing things clean. That’s one thing, there’s a lot of media buyers out there internationally, loca,l they’re everywhere. Um, finding the right media buyer can be very complex because of the fact that there are many media buyers that maybe do things in ways that could jeopardize the offer or the business. So you want to make sure that their activities are clean and that they’re doing things in a manner that makes sense. And it’s not a scam.

You don’t want to get people upset and returning your product, or you don’t want your offer going out for two, three months and getting good traction. And then all of a sudden being turned off because it’s not clean. So, so that’s one thing which is really also part of compliance in general is that you really want someone that understands compliance and does things white hat, which is in a clean way and not black hat, which is dirty marketing or tricks or anything that would be classified in that manner. And then I would say another thing for number two would have to be that you really want to make sure that you’re working with someone that has the experience. So someone that has seen, you know, or has experience in that specific niche that you’re looking to market in. So let’s say that you have, you know, a diet program that you want to promote.

You want to bring it online, you have all the pieces, it’s optimized to affiliate traffic. You’re going to want to make sure that you’re going to work with a media buyer that understands that niche and that industry, because what happens is a lot of media buying, at least successful media buying comes down to marketing knowhow and knowledge. And if the media buying team doesn’t know anything about the market, that can be, you know, kind of, uh, problematic. So that would be number two, number three would be relationships. Relationships are super important. It’s one of the number one things that we invest in, not just with the employees we have, but also with our partners. So I would classify the tier one networks as partners, as I said before. So that’s very important, not just for, you know, VIP, let’s say support, but also for growth.

You’re going to want to work with an agency that can not just get you good numbers from day one, but also take you to the next level over time that can support your scale and build you into a brand and not just an overnight success. So that’s a very, very important and yeah, there’s many more, you know, if we would add one extra, let’s say one extra thing to look at, I would say would be creative. Creative is always overlooked by most media buyers and agencies or whatnot. And I think that’s one thing we do really, really well because we invest a lot in it – having a great creative team that can really support all initiatives across all of the tier one networks. So video ads, image ads, everything from designers to video editors, to script writers, to long form copywriters. We have them all, and that’s something we really really think is really a game changer these days, because you have to be able to have the right creative.

Creative is King. When you’re talking about paid media, without the right creative – just like if you don’t have the right funnel that converts well, your media buying won’t succeed. So creative is very important, especially on socially driven channels like Facebook and YouTube. So you’re going to want to have a team that can really do everything from A to Z with creative and know what they’re doing. So that would be the next thing. In terms of like red flags to look for when you’re looking for media buyers that might stand out that are, that would be more risk than a reward. I would say, it comes down to really, how do they communicate?

So it’s like similar to the opposite side, which I look for is like, is this media buying team going to be communicating with you, you know, on a daily basis, on a weekly basis? Are you going to have calls or you’re going to understand what’s going on in the accounts, are you going to be able to work together in a way that will provide longterm stability and success? That’s really important. Or is it just like a one man show and what’s going on there and maybe they’re managing too many accounts. You really have to get to know who you’re going to be working with. And this applies to all types of businesses and partnerships.

So I think it’s really important getting to know who it is. And the best thing that I always say is to get recommendations and know from others in the industry, this is what has literally helped us, you know, take shape and really be in hyper-growth for like the last two or three years is really understanding the importance of our reputation. And having people recommend us instead of just going in cold emailing or calling different clients or vendors. So I think reputation with the communication are very, very important when you’re examining who to work with on the media front.

Dee Braun: Very, very good. Okay. You’ve used a term a couple of times and I think we should define it. Reach scale or to scale – what exactly does that mean?

Adam Feldman: Yeah. So this can be, it can be broad. It can mean many things to many different people. So when I say to reach scale, I’m talking about taking your business to the next level. So you’re acquiring many more customers in the acquisition side. Your business is making a lot more revenue. You’re hitting targets that you weren’t hitting before. It’s basically the next level of growth. So now when you’re scaling, let’s say at this stage, you’re in hyper-growth or you’re heading towards hyper growth. Whereas if you weren’t scaling, it’s just a straight line. So, yeah. Flat.

Dee Braun: Gotcha. So tell me a little bit about Kendago. If I came to you and we were going to sit down and talk about an offer I had, what services do you provide? What what’s the process look like? How long does it take from our initial conversation? Assuming we end up working together… to start to get everything live and, and starting to scale, and how exactly are you going to help me do that?

Adam Feldman: Yeah, so everything varies, of course, like, unless you see what you’re going to be involved with, the offer itself, it’s very hard to come to a standard, you know, answer here. But I would say that the onboarding process itself while working with us is pretty, pretty easy and flexible. And the number one thing comes down to just communicating between the two sides on a simple call, even video call, it might be, might be just a regular Skype call, um, and really hashing out that the main major details, and getting the offer pre-approved through the major networks.

So what we usually do if I take you through, like the process, is that we will start by reviewing the accounts if there’s existing accounts or activity with a media, and we will see what we can do to improve that over time short term, and of course, with longterm. And at that stage, we will be able to understand what’s possible. So we’ll take that. We’ll go ahead and communicate with the vendor on a call, like a media call, initial media call, and then we will go ahead and work to get everything pre-approved through the network. So in most cases, when we get something, it might be running even for a few months or a year, but it hasn’t been approved through the networks. It hasn’t been white listed. It’s not maybe clean, it’s maybe not compliant.

Maybe it’s missing specific disclaimers. There’s many nuances that need to be in place in order to be a longterm brand and especially an offer that can scale. So those are the steps that we will take in the first phase is to get it approved, which everything together throughout whole onboarding process can be maybe just two weeks, even, or less in some cases. So once it’s approved is when the work really starts. When we strategize with the vendor, we start making strategies with our partners, what kind of angles do we want to go after, what kind of target audiences, what kind of marketing messages should we use to relate to these audiences We put ourselves in the buyers shoe, create buyer personas is what we would do.

So we want to understand who are the buyers, what are their desires, and really close the gap between the desires as well as, you know, what they don’t want to be, where they’re trying to move from and where they want to be. So that’s really important when we create the strategy behind how we’re going to advertise the brand. And it’s really nice when you can do it with the vendors side by side, in a very fluid way, because again, communication is key. If we do everything on our side alone, you lack that communication. So I love when we get to work with other vendors side-by-side on that, hand in hand.

But yeah, after that, we start the campaigns and we begin, having weekly calls reporting and so forth. And we try to, uh, take things to the next level. That’s the whole goal, of course. And so the process itself is very short, sweet, I would say. And very effective after doing this for many years now.

Dee Braun: So what do you think the biggest advantages in working with a quality media buy vendor? Is it more of the avoiding the landmines that you would step on trying to figure it out yourself? Because I would think that would actually save you money in the long run. Yes?

Adam Feldman: Yeah. So you’re saying on the vendor side, what do I look for? So look, I think having an experienced vendor to work with is almost always best. Okay. There’s a history there, you know what you’re getting into, they understand their customers, they understand their product, they’re involved, they’re committed. They want it to work. They’ve been pushing to get it to work. This is someone that is very, very involved with their brand that really wants this to work out longterm. So that’s nice. I like a history and I like someone like that.

But at the same time, on the other hand, taking someone new that’s fresh might be a big risk and not something we necessarily might look for, but the potential there can be huge, not just for growth, but as building a brand from nothing. Especially with the expertise that we have just, you know, from being in this so long, but also be nice. So it really just depends what you’re looking for.

Dee Braun: So flip that, what’s the biggest advantage for me working with someone like you? You know, you can spend a lot of money. Well, you can actually flush a lot of money down the toilet trying to navigate this terrain if you don’t know it well. Whereas if I work with you, there’s going to be a cost, obviously, but couldn’t that be more cost effective in the big picture, then the trial and error I may go through on my own?

Adam Feldman: I would say for sure it, look, if you’re starting to media buy just out of the gate and you’re doing it as a brand, the chances of succeeding, I would say are very slim over time. Brands do transition sometimes to internal media teams, but it takes time. It takes knowledge. And I would definitely say that you’re going to want to cut those risks as you’re building your brand. Like, first of all, you’re going to want to have the cashflow.

So many younger brands or even seven and eight figure brands might not have the cash flow needed to support the ad spend – to support the amount of spend and money they’re going to be committing to ads. So what happens is, this is where it can really help having someone experienced behind the wheel, to really watch over that money and to profit from it or help you profit from it, as well as what we do. In many cases, we even work as an affiliate, so we will get paid per sale or a percentage of the revenue.

So rev share, and we will take all the upfront risk as your media buyer, we will spend our money and you will pay us only per sale, which means that you’re going to be able to reinvest in your business and focus your money where it matters most. And then we come in and help build your brand with our money behind our paid media operations. So we’re very flexible. And I think that flexibility is really, really important, especially when you’re a younger brand, trying to get into it with paid media, instead of just taking that risk yourself.

Dee Braun: That is awesome. I didn’t know that was even an option. So what did I not ask or cover? What can you add that? I just missed

Adam Feldman:

Look, I think media buying is very easy to explain, but there’s so many pieces to it that go into it. So we will never be able to cover it all in one session. But I do think that with the right knowledge, people can have success. And I think that you do want to be partnered with the right people and have those relationships that really can help you stand out for the future.

Because if you’re getting into media buying, you don’t just want to be an overnight success. You don’t want to do this for like a month or something, and then you get out or you build a bad reputation, everything matters each moment. So I would say the best vendors are the ones that are committed. And even if they’re young vendors and they’re just starting, you know, if they have the right mindset, you know, sky’s really the limit if you have that set up the right way.

Dee Braun: That is awesome. I really appreciate your time today. It took long enough to get you to agree, but I appreciate it.

Adam Feldman: You’re the second person I’ve ever spoken to on a call like this and only one other presentation live.

Dee Braun: I am incredibly honored Adam. So because you’re the one that I wanted for this topic and I wasn’t going to give up.

Adam Feldman: If there was any way that I would speak to and love to share information would be with you, you know, how much I, you know, what you do and how highly I respect you for everything you do in the space. So I would definitely put you up against anyone. I always have appreciated our relationship personally and business wise, and look forward to seeing what you do with yourself into the future, as well as with everything now, because I think that, you know, with you, the sky is always the limit. You always go way beyond expectations, I would say,

Dee Braun: Well, thank you for that. Jeez, that respect goes both ways. So I treasure our relationship as well, but thank you so much. And I will talk to you soon.

Adam Feldman: Perfect.

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